Thursday, May 7, 2015
How Public Should Your Wife Led Marriage Be?
One thing I want to make unequivocally clear is that I blog post here with an understanding of a couple of things. One is that I am somewhat of a novice and am seeking to learn. Another is my understanding and assumption that all couples are different and can choose different paths - even if they do share the general commonality of being in female led or wife led relationships. I consider myself to be an "explorer"only. I relish the thoughts, feedback, and knowledge that others have. For me it's the reason to post at all.
Another thing I should share is that even though I still consider myself a novice in many ways I have quickly realized that I may well be more "strict" or "dominant" than some, though not all, other women who are in these types of marriages. It's just me and so far seems to be working quite well - for both of us. Though I am a bit afraid of sounding "too strict" my feeling is that my authoritarianism works well and my husband not only is responsive to it but needs it.
One thing I am curious about is how do other women handle the public aspects of a wife led or female in the lead type of marriage? To be honest, even in marriages that would not use the term "wife led" my belief is that many of them are - even if not in the more extreme ways my own has been developing. Even in more "traditional" families I think it is frequently known that you "call the woman of the house if you want something done". Please know - I realize fully that there are numerable exceptions. I hear and see many women who run their homes in an authoritarian fashion - even if it is not fully acknowledged that that is the case.
Part of my purpose of this post is to explore the "public" aspects of wife led marriage. For us, out in the World it has not really been an issue for the most part. Occasionally we will get a "glance" or "double take" in a restaurant when I indicate that the bill come to me - or last week when, quite audibly I told my husband that I wanted him to pick a salad for dinner (keeping him trim) - despite his menu lingering over a sauced chicken dish. Our "dynamic" did not go unnoticed by the 30 something waitress who had to sense that this was not negotiable. I expect she was not used to this sort of "public" openness of female authority. I don't know.
Those more "anonymous" interactions have been more straightforward. It gets a bit more interesting with family and friends. Our parents, particularly his mom, are more than aware that I "wear the pants in the family" though they do not know nearly how far my authority extends. My girlfriends are another story. I have one, maybe two who "know all" and then a more extensive group who "know" in some sense but again not the full extent - frankly I am not even sure I myself know that!
The "public question" was apparent to me last weekend when I had my husband prep, serve and clean up after a small group of professional women I had over for a "business-social" type gathering. Again, the "dynamic" did not go unnoticed. The two single women chided "where can I get one of those". At one point there was what I would call some "gentle teasing". My husband is sensitive and can be prone to blushing easily and did so then. I think he knows though that I won't let the ladies get too rough!
In any event - I am curious as to how other women/couples manage all this. My expectation is that my husband works to manage it for the most part. I know that there will be moments of vulnerability that I expect will feel more awkward to him than to me and I will support him through those moments. However, I don't want or expect to "hide" the real dynamic of our connection and for the most part want and expect him to manage. The deep reality is - he knows that when I am pleased - he may be as well. My happiness is (increasingly) a primary objective for him - even if I lay out challenges.
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I think it comes down to whether or not you want to make this dynamic public.In this day and age, a woman ordering for the table and paying the check is not necessarily an indication of FLM. Similarly, when entertaining at home, it isn't particularly noteworthy when a husband does the serving and cleaning up, particularly when the guests are there to visit with the wife.
ReplyDeleteIn our marriage, Mrs. Lion makes requests in a very loving way. I understand that to disregard them will earn me a spanking, but the rest of the world just sees a loving couple taking care of each other. We make no effort to share our dynamic with others. It really isn't necessary.
Having said that, some people - mostly husbands - like the humiliation of exposure or the risk of exposure. In that case, like having sex in public, the thrill of possible discovery is exciting. That isn't the case with us.
dear caged lion,
ReplyDeletethank you, and, I tend to agree - certain aspects of this, at least nowadays are unremarkable and would not, I think, especially catch the eye of outsiders. In my own marriage I suspect there is a bit more of an "authoritarian" dynamic which, while the issues themselves are not-so-unusual, the "feel of it" might be.
I am interested in what you said about "humiliation". I do feel that in public (and I mean even if we are talking about just one girlfriend) my husband has both fear and nervous excitement that "it" (or perhaps "he"?) will be visible to her. I am not entirely sure what "that" is or what "it" means. Maybe only that the way he grew up culturally it was drilled into him that it was 'wrong" or "taboo" or "unmanly" to be submissive to a female. In truth I believe it is literally "who" he is and feels more "right" to him (why else would it occur?) but I think the world is filled with messages that he hears and sees that say it is wrong or reflects negatively on him.
Great topic, Miss Jessica. It’s sweet that you are supportive of your husband through any vulnerable moments he may encounter as you live your dynamic. I also like the fact that you expect him to manage his way through the process. With a proper goal of pleasing you, I imagine your husband is becoming quite comfortable in deferring to your leadership in public.
ReplyDeleteIt has been a fun journey for my wife and as she assumes her leadership role in public, family and social settings. What was awkward at first is now commonplace for us, with Donna taking the lead in dealing with salespeople, restaurant staff, contractors, friends, family members,etc. I am not the least bit humiliated, and in fact, feel downright proud and honored to serve my beautiful wife. Her confidence, wisdom and creativity have blossomed now that Donna has taken the mantle.
If Donna worried about protecting my ego while we are out and about, I would be very disappointed. In fact, she is quite proud of me, and my willingness to go above and beyond to make her happy. Oftentimes, she’ll happily volunteer my services to a family member or friend in need if the situation calls for it. “Oh, Scott will be happy to babysit the three toddlers while we go shopping.” Or, “Scott can take care of hanging that shelf for you while we have dessert.”
Her skills were hidden under a rock when I was the boss, and now Donna is emerging as the very wise and loving leader of the family. I am so proud of her and very happy to be her number two, and dedicate myself to loving, romancing, obeying and joyfully serving her so that her life is as beautiful as possible! She’s bearing the mantle of leadership and deserves s all the energetic support I can give her, whether in private or in public!
Thank you very much for blogging, Dearest Jessica.
Have a great week,
Scott
Scott I have been struggling a lot to understand what my husband wanted from me when he asked for an flm but you explained it beautifully!
DeleteDear Scott,
ReplyDeletethank you for the posting. sounds like you may be a bit further along than my husband - he does, I think, still get embarrassed a times. I think he loves it as well but the shyness around it all can still be apparent. BTW - Donna's style sounds quite similar to mine in terms of how she offers your assistance. Kudos to you for stepping up and not backing away from her lead.
When a woman compliments my wife on me, she often says that "he's very well trained." My ears burn, but I'm proud at the same time.
ReplyDeleteMy husband and I have become quite open with our immediate family. Our two adult children know of and for the most part approve of the way we live. Not sure that my son understands, but our daughter wants her daddy to be happy.
ReplyDeleteLove, Kathy
Dear Jessica,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your post. When my wife and I were married, my vow was to "love, honor and obey" her. Some people at the wedding (who didn't know us that well) actually laughed. Later we combined our maiden names (hers last). When we go anywhere, she always drives. And when she takes me out to eat she asks me ahead of time what I want - then orders for me. Just a few things we do in public that show "who wears the pants."
The more often we see female led couples expressing their dynamic in public the more acceptable it will be. It was no big deal to see just men voting. Now you see more and women voting and perhaps this trend will continue.
ReplyDeleteWhat a Goddess!! Wow!
ReplyDeleteI really loved this post. My marriage is not really a FLM in the sense that my wife wouldn't call it that. What makes our marriage interesting is that she is strong and I am so much in love with her that I want to do all for her and make her happy.
ReplyDeleteIn a normal day out, if her shoelace gets untied, she would ask me to tie it, and on the street I would go on my knees and do that for her. At the end of the day she would tell me that her feet hurt, and would gives them to me for a massage. She knows I would not say no, and she expects it.
If we are meeting friends, she would choose what I wear, or if I do it and she doesn't like it, she would ask me to change....and I do it.
Just this week she was pouring a glass of water and some drops feel on her lower legs. She just asked me to dry them, and I jump to do it, I love serving her.
I am not ashamed if in public we are invited to a place or to do anything, and I will respond that I first must check with my wife. At a restaurant I like to check with her what I am eating before ordering. Driving, she will tell me what route I should get.
The interesting fact here is that she doesn't order me. She ask things in a natural loving way. She doesn't yell at me, she would say "could you please ..."
It comes just natural to me to please her. I do the laundry at home, she would try to help but I tell her to let me help and spoil her. Every time I can, I try to have dinner ready for when she gets home.
I love serving her, even if she is not really ordering me around. She could get me to do more, but I think she does only what comes natural to her.
And one last thing, we have two boys, the youngest is 15, and they see when my wife comes home and give me her feet for a massage. Again is all in a loving way, and I do it expressing my love for her.
I would love for her to be even more dominant, but as I read before, it is not really what I want for me, but what I want for her. I will continue to find ways to do more and serve her, demonstrating that she is my real queen ;-)
Juan,
Deletethank you so much for sharing. it sounds as though you have a wonderful marriage. you are a lucky fellow to have the female leader you have in it. i'll add too that there is nearly no "yelling or demanding" between me and my own husband. I think he desires, very deeply to serve. The two of you have that in common and I am beginning to understand that many, many men feel that way. I chuckled when I read your piece about her having you tie her shoe in public. I have shared that particular request with my husband more than a few times! He still can blush or become a bit uneasy with public displays of my authority but his desire to please me takes the lead in that. Good luck and say more if you care to!
Well, im very new to the FLR and so is my new wife of 2 years.. I started out but noting various Bible verses to her showing that the man needs to submit to her, and she agreed.. Here are some of the Bible verses:
ReplyDeleteServe Your Wife
I know this will shock some people, but the Bible does say that we are to serve our wives.
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,
The New King James Version. 1982 (Ephesians 5:25).
Love your wife unconditionally. Ephesians 5:25
Serve your wife. According to the New Testament, being head of your wife does not mean being her master, but her servant. Again, Christ is our model for this type of leadership. Jesus did not just talk about serving; He demonstrated it when he washed His disciples' feet (John 13:1-17). Christ, the Head of the Church, took on the very nature of a servant when He was made in human likeness (Philippians 2:7).
God tells us specifically that if we want to lead, we need to serve. Men, if we are going to be the head over our wives, we need to serve her. We need to sacrifice for her. She needs to be the focus of our attention, apart from God himself. The word Jesus uses, servant, means more than what we commonly picture as a servant. It is not a butler, or a cook, but a full on slave!
Husband submits to his wife’s need to be understood and honored.
When a husband submits to his wife, God answers the man’s prayers 1st Peter(3:7).
My wife now agrees I should always submit to her.. And this made me very happy! Because I get to serve her now... hehhe Because its new to me and her Im going very slow not to screw anything up. Id say maybe its only been 2 months now submitting to her. I told her its my job now always to make the coffee in the morning for us, and I also ordered a coffee mug online and put an image that says, Husband in training... hehhehe she liks it! so I got one for her that reads, "Wife in charge" Im so happy im moving into the right direction for Her. I also, saved about 10 images on my computer of man submitting to woman and asked which one she likes the best for me to do.. she pointed to 2 of them.. Perfect!! Now I know how she wants me to submit to her! Im happy You can tell as I write this sharing my new knowledge to others..
Congratulations Carpadiem both of you are lucky.
ReplyDeleteMy wife and I entered into female-led marriage after decades of non-FLR marriage. We were already very happy, and now we're even happier!
ReplyDeleteOur friends know that I'm the laid-back pushover and she's the dynamic one. One of our best male friends teases me publicly about being a wimp; some of our female friends joke enviously with my wife about how well-trained she has me.
But no one really knows the extent of our arrangement: I do the shopping, cooking and cleaning, run errands, see to her every need, and carry out orders promptly. I also provide sexual service on demand. She exercises discipline through orgasm control and corporal punishment. We're having a lot of fun with this.
I will often declare that I'm a submissive husband, in all seriousness, but everyone thinks I'm joking. I get a kick out of that. I think one couple suspects there's more to it, but I can't be sure.
I would love to be more public. I'm thinking of telling an old school friend that I'm still in touch with. My wife has always been discreet, but recently she has grown more relaxed with bossing me around obviously in public. And the last couple of times that she took the bath brush to me, she left the window open. This meant that the neighbors in our apartment building could overhear. I thought that was hot.
One problem is that lots of people do not understand kink and react fearfully to it, as if it were an unhealthy perversion. If one were too public, one could make people ill at ease. I think one needs to pick and choose the people to disclose intimate details to.
I hope my wife is telling her friends how much control she has over me.
ReplyDeleteAww, thank you very much, princess D. That is very sweet.
ReplyDeleteUnless I missed it, one matter I did not see resolved was how is the FLR dynamic sustained when there are children living in the home?
ReplyDeleteThis is a topic that should get more discussion. In general, WLM couples hide the sexual elements but make no effort to disguise the authority of the wife. However, when there are children around, it is especially important for the wife to exercise her authority in a respectful manner. The husband may be subordinate to the wife but never to the children. The children should view the father as the executor of the mother's will. Much like a knight for a Queen.
DeleteAnd I assume any discipline the husband has incurred will be administered in private, ideally when the kids are "at grandma's"? Or are there instances when the wife is open to making older daughters privy to the fact that she sometimes punishes their father, while not actually allowing them to witness or participate?
DeleteI would recommend against allowing the children to become aware of anything more than the husband's devotion and high respect for the wife. There may come a day when the wife/mother shares her marital secrets with her adult daughters as, for example, when they are entering their own marriages. The natural question they will have is how can they have a marriage like what they enjoyed at home. Until then, it is important to maintain the husband/father's authority with respect to the children.
DeleteThank you so much for this view on a female led marriage with kids (mainly girls) in the house. Everyone has their on opinion and lifestyle they wish to live, but I read far to many blogs where we (the wife) are instructed to teach our daughters to treat our husbands in the same manner we do in our head of household role. I strongly disagree with this style. First reason, there are going to be times when I am away, my husband has to have authority over them and they have to have respect of that authority, otherwise I would have two teens daughters doing whatever they wished while I was away because they had no respect for their father. Second, I will find ways to encourage my daughters find a man similar to their father in the way he tends to my needs and takes care of me, but will not push a true full blown female led relationship on to them. If my marriage lives by a strong example for them and they choose to research it and then live that lifestyle... then that would be wonderful. It has to be something they want though, not something I expect from them.
DeleteMy last reason for not having my daughter "boss" their father around is to me, this is too much like incest and I will not be a part of it. I know, for a fact, my husband will get a hard on sometimes from me telling him to wash dishes, do some laundry....etc. The last thing I need is one of my teen daughters telling her father to wash this little cute dress because she has a date that night and my husband getting any kind of excitable feeling in doing that for her. To me, his role as a father to our daughters, needs to be very traditional with him having control over them.
Thanks Again
Anna
Anna,
DeleteI believe that we share similar opinions with regard to the limited disclosure of your marital arrangement to your daughters. I would the assume that if you do use corporal punishment to discipline your hubby, that it is carried out in complete privacy, and that the girls are never privy to it ever having taken place? Or is spanking not a part of your relationship?
Hi,
DeleteAs Ms Anna may have hinted, "spanking" and "disciplining" are a kink/ fetish. I would never recommend displaying that behavior in front of children, no matter their age.
In my humble opinion, if the beating is not meant to be erotic, it is abuse.
Regardless, it's not a good idea to display this kind of behavior in front of your children, no matter their age.
Follow Anna's advice. She seems like a good leader.
Anyway, it looks like this thread originates in 2018 and I'm probably talking to myself but Hello from 2021. F@&k Covid.
ReplyDeleteTo see us in public you would think we are a traditional couple. When we first married we joked about her being my Stepford wife because she was a SAHM keeping the house clean, having dinner and a drink going when I got home from work, taking care of the shopping and kids, etc. She thrilled at presenting herself as "Mrs. Roberts". Over time our marriage stalled and we became complacent and we both became unhappy for various reasons. Then an argument (I was absolutely wrong, even by our old standards) and the turning point came. She slapped me and I groaned. She realized what had happened and we talked about it. I suggested she take the lead in our relationship and I don't think there's been a single issue since.
We are still working through some issues (it will be 1 year of FLR next Monday) and discovering our comfort zone each and every day. She is not a loud or demanding wife, instead she makes requests and I act on them, usually without question. When in doubt I simply obey. We have our routines within the house that have flipped our marriage completely around: I do dishes and pick up the living room and bedroom daily, laundry and cleaning the bathroom weekly, kiss her and get her coffee when she wakes up, and various other things on an as needed basis. Now she has time, still as a SAHM, to focus on herself and her hobbies. She works out daily and has gained confidence in herself because of it. She's started a business that aligns with her favorite hobby. She's gained more time to spend with friends as well.
Our kids have noticed a difference in our behavior and in the quality of our relationship. This is the extent of what they know but it has even led to our son being kinder to her.
In public, however, we are simply tired of trying to be discreet. To be sure, there are plenty of aspects of our public lives that are just good for a successful relationship even if they aren't widely practiced. I open doors for her, help her into the car, allow her to enter a room first, hold the umbrella, stand when she arrives or leaves the table, etc. But more and more some hints into our relationship have become obvious because we simply don't care to hide them. We have a joint calendar now so I act as her personal assistant scheduling appointments for anything from the doctor to hair and nails. When I can, I pay for her appointments ahead of time (tip included, as needed) and give instructions to better meet her needs. When she shops alone she will frequently have them save the items at the counter so I can go to the store to pay for them later. When at a restaurant she will order for both of us and ask that the check be given to her.
Now, when people comment on how "well-trained" I am she tells them it was hard work but necessary. She doesn't volunteer it but if someone asks her about our relationship she will (I as well) let them know the broad strokes of it. For me, it feels so liberating being able to be open about what we do and why we do it.
I have been trying to get my wife to take control of our marriage AND me for several years but she just is not interested. To me for a wife to be in charge she must have great legs, like my 65-year-old bride has, but I have no idea how to get her to take over.
ReplyDeleteThis is a difficulty for many men, not just those in their golden years. The best I can offer is to worship your wife in secret. For ideas, see http://worshippingyourwife.blogspot.com/
DeleteWhat I don't see is why,in a male led relationship situations like the above are treated as abuse and worthy of police attention.It is easily understood that there should be a leader in the relationship,be it male or female but to block one while espousing the other is pure hypocracy.Why not let nature evolve.The problems arise on break ups.I presume on FLR'S the wife forgoes any gender
ReplyDeleteadvantages.I have read of many breakups and in some,the male has committed suicide owing to having no rights at all and that,just because the woman has found someone else more exciting.
Amazingly, I have not heard of any divorces from those following my advice. Divorce is ugly and destructive. Fix the marriage.
Delete